League shake up idea no 973

[Mike Langdon]

Just another idea after the meeting yesterday. OK i know we keep coming up with different formats and keep hitting a brick wall and i fully respect those who are quite happy with the current format which is one I am quite happy with, but personally i feel is one which is a little fat and not as competitive between clubs as the league could possibly be. I also think there is a contingent who would like to see change which is why we keep coming up with different ideas, so here's the latest.  There was 12 points seperating the top two sides from 3rd and 4th in the top division this year, that's a massive 6 wins! this is a huge gap that needs to be addressed unless everyone is happy with a Scottish Premier League scenario with the same two sides battling it out each season with no one else in sight, but for me that is unhealthy.

Firstly I really believe that the top division needs to be upped to 10 sides, the reason for this is that sides would then only have to play each other twice which should help close the points gap.

I would like to see just four man teams playing a home match one week and an away match the next, 1 frame per player, four frame matches ie 4-0, 3-1 or 2-2.

By just having four man teams this would bring a lot more clubs into contention in the league as most clubs have at least three excellent players but perhaps just lack the strengh of the Arnold and Pegasus squads after that.  Clubs would find it easier to get a four man team up and running rather than the 6-8 man teams we currently need (EMI would be a prime example this season). As matches would be played home one week and away the next this will allow clubs with only one table to have 2 sides, therefore no players would be cast aside...this would be wrong and the last thing i would want to see.

I also believe this format may attract new sides into the league, perhaps from the notts institutes league who already play a similiar format.

If the four man teams were registered (which we are doing anyway) by highest quality downwards 1-4 we could ensure match up's to cut out the tactical switches that currently take place ie: Barry Stark would have to play Chris Brooks etc.
And how about a small team handicap up to +14 ie Pegasus or Arnold (scr) when they play Lenton (+7) for instance would have to give a 7 point start in each frame. These handicaps could be changed each season decided by final position....sides finishing 1st and 2nd would start the following season off scratch, positions 3-7 (+7) and 8th and promoted teams would start on (+14).

Pemier Division

Arnold CD 'A' (scr) - Chris Winter, Gary Spencer, Malc Belshaw, Jon Fountain
Pegasus (scr) - Chris Brooks, Jamie Mathers, Chris Piech, Mike Langdon
Lenton 'A' (+7) - Adam Shaw, Matt Ellis, Phil Connely, Adam Goodall
BCI 'A' (+7) - Wayne Martin, Kwok Yip, Jonathan Mason, Neil Elliott
Stadium 'A' (+7) - Barry Stark, Steve Butler, Mark Allen, Matt Ellis
Peoples Hall 'A' (+7) - Zeb Ahmed, Nav Hussain, John Marshall, Zed Zubaih
Cotgrave 'A' (+7) - Harry Briody, Anthony McMahon, Steve Richards, ?
Sherwood 'A' (+7) - Lee Crombie, Jason Turner, Wayne Bilbie, Brendan Murtagh
Sherwood 'B' (+14) - Mick Salton, Gaz Evans, Andy Fitton, ?
Arnold CD 'B' (+14) - Tony Hart, James Notman, Brian Kinton, Richard Tooley

* apologies if i have over looked anyone and of course it would be down to the sides themselves to name teams.  Yes I know Tony Hart should be in the 'A' team but just thought he'd perhaps like to stay with his mates and would beef up the 'b' team.

Then the following sides could perhaps create 2 more divisions:

Arnold 'C', Pegasus 'B', Lenton 'B & C', BCI 'B', Stadium 'B', Mapperley 'A & B', City Hospital 'A & B', Rutland 'A & B', Wollaton 'A & B', Phoenix 'A & B', Oakleigh L 'A & B', Peolpes Hall 'B',  EMI and Sherwood 'C' = 21 teams.

I guess to change the format would also have an element of risk so perhaps it would be wise to just have a trial with the top division for a season and see how it goes and keep the current format for all the other clubs outside the top flight.

I know this is unlikely to get the nod but i really think it could work well and could realisticaly offer the chance to other clubs to win the league.

Mike   

[Robert Wright]

Yes mike we do play a similar format in the Institutes and Bulwell and district leagues. Instead of 4-0, 3-1, 2-2 we award an extra point for a win, therefore 5-0 4-1, and in the case of a 2-2 we add the teams scores and whichever is the highest gets the extra point 3-2. I agree with Steven Lally at Phoenix that it also promotes team spirit. The rest of the team routing for their player. I don't however want you to adopt this format if it means taking teams away from the Institutes league. Obviously a bit of self interest!!!! However it is a good format and it works for us. We also play from scatch, except cup and plate games where it is a team handicap, as we rely on teams to play their best player at number 1 position and so on.  A point i will make is on claimed games. We do not give an automatic 5-0 win on claimed games. If a team claimes a game for whatever reason they only get 4 points (i wanted it to be 3 but was voted against) and the team that it is claimed against loses 5 points. This helps discourage teams from claiming and makes them more likely to pospone and replay at a latter date. 

[Mike Langdon]

I certainly wasn't insinuating that we might poach teams from your league just that there might be a few keen sides who may wish to play twice a week like Sherwood 'A' did until they pulled out of ours, would they have had it only been a four man team? probably not.

To be honest i don't see these little ideas being taken onboard and i'm sure we'll still be playing the 8 frame format for another 20 years without any change with the same old teams dominating for 6 or 7 seasons before another crop of talented players come through from another club to dominate etc.  I would like to think there are a few good ideas within it though ie Players playing in order of ability and the team handicap system (which would only work if players played in the correct order).

We discussed last night that quite a few dislike having to play a doubles frame (which was brought in so we could field a minimum 6 man team rather than eight) which was a good idea and probably saved the league, but the only problem with it (apart from not many people enjoy playing doubles) is that once again it favours the best sides who can play their very best players twice.

You're quite right about the team spirit at matches and the atmosphere must be great, saying well done by text message isn't quite the same as a high five is it?

Cheers

Mike

[Robert Wright]

I wasn't implying that it would take teams away from our league. To be honest having the two league with different formats creates more interest. I don't think Sherwood would have pulled out if it had been a 4 man format. They didn't pull out of ours and are now in the cup final next week at Masters (Monday night 7:30 if you would like to come). against a team that finnished 3rd bottom of division 2. Thats the way the handicap works. Dosn't inhibit the good teams but encourages the 'weaker' teams. During the summer, instead of singles competitions, we run a divisional cup competition, which is handicapped on league position. This gives more teams a chance of winning something and thus makes them more inclined to play during the winter. The following Monday it's the plate final at City Hospital. My team are playing in it,although not me, as they have played all the matches leading up to the final. I think Steves coming to that one. If you want to come you would be most welcome.   

[Mike Langdon]

It's always good to hear about different ideas from other leagues and it's a good one to have a summer knockout as quite a few players from our league are left with no competitive snooker throughout the summer. This was the reason I started up the Pegasus singles league to give my players something to do and it also keeps them in good touch so we start the NHSL running (hopefully). From only having 12 players last season we have doubled the number for this coming season (plenty of youngsters as well which can only be good for the teams future) and have also started to add good quality players from outside the club.  I won't be able to make Monday as i'm busy popping down the club each night to ensure everyone involved has their fixture cards but the plate is a possibility.

Another idea i've had which might be a bit of fun to do each year. As both the NHSL and Institutes league start in October why not have a 'season curtain raiser' between the two leagues. Perhaps the best 11 players from each league that are available - Perhaps you and Steve as secretaries could play each other as part of the 11 man team, 1 frame each, played at BCI (as they play in both leagues). Played at the end of Sept start at 8 should be done by 10:30-11pm if we use 3 tables?

Mike

[Steve Butler]

You have just made post number 147 Mike.  That's the only time you'll get to see that number next to your name! 

Good idea about the 'curtain raiser'.  The two Treasurers could play each other too, James v Dave.  Also the Chairmen, Pete v Pete!!  I just hope the two teams don't turn up on different nights!!! 

[James Robinson]

Sounds good to me.

Im up for the challenge

[Robert Wright]

Sounds good to me too!

i'm up for it. Maybe we could make it a charity night. ?2 per player per match and 20p for every foul shot? What do you think?

[Mike Langdon]

Yeah that would be a nice touch. 

[James Robinson]

Well if i play anything like i have done over the last 2 days you will be getting a lot of 20p out of me.